Curse

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 21, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

1. Because mistakes must be fixed.

2. Those 10k customers

I'm talking about those that WILL go for the beta and buy GW2 as soon as it is released. That's more than 10k.

please show me proof or some kind of evidence that we are a "minority"
just saying there isn't a lot of people, or "everyone i know besides 1 guy" do not count

this isnt against the major player base, most of the player base doesnt even care or have thought of this, theres not a mass amount of people for either side, just people with nothing else to do that argue on forums when they are bored

so plz stop using the comparison of 10,000 vs millions, its accurate by any means and theres no way to prove it either way

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Items becoming less rare due to dripping more it's not a problem about the inscriptions.

It's a problem about rates.

Even if the price o getting inscribable celestial shields is reducing their drop for 0.1 to 0.01, it would still worth it.

The point is to reduce the uselessness of the items that drop, not to decrease their rarity.
- Combinations not possible? Add more upgrades to the lists.
- Market filled with some historically rare items? Decrease their rates.

As long as a player cannot get the combination they want whatever it is in Prophecies and Factions, Prophecies and Factions need inscriptions.

You can wait until you die to get them yourself, and if you depend on others selling them, you end up with people only sell some combinations, believing that no one would pay for them.

On top of that, Prophecies has no unique skins, and all faction skins may drop in Urgoz/Deep chests.

So we end up that ALL skins can be obtained inscribed already.
So the only thing left is to make them worldwide, so Prophecies and the Rest of factions are not left out.

R.Shayne · Jan 21, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

/not signed

Just stop with all the inscription crap. The list of mod combination you can get with inscription is shorter then the non-inscription ones. Sure, all combos are not as useful as they could be, but then again, why should they be?

Old-school FTW!

Have you actually looked at that shield? Monk can't use it because strength is a primary for warrior, Warrior can't use because divine is primary for monks. Wish you could put an inscription on it then it might be worth something. As it is now it is a good shield for a starter warrior but after level 10 you will want to find something with a better inscription.

I like the drop gold inscribable in hard mode ideal just make it a rarity, about the same rarity of getting a celestial inscribable staff from the z-chest.

/Signed.

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

In that example, that makes 8 armor and 18 against piercing damage, plus +1(20%) for divine favor.

Currently, there are no 'per attribute' upgrades in the lists, althought you can salvage them in prophecies and factions. So a matching combination is not possible.
In this case, we get two properties that are currently linked to the inscription, not the handle/Core.

So if you want an energy storage wand that gives HCR for both water and fire you can't have one.

But that's not a problem with the system. The system is better.
New upgrades may be needed that are not in the lists, but the system is much better than the old.

It's just incomplete and needs more stuff to unlock to customize better the weapons.

That's all.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 21, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

i disagreed with everything you said until this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Even if the price of getting inscribable celestial shields is reducing their drop for 0.1 to 0.01, it would still worth it.

it would seem to make it close to the drop of a "perfect" tyrian inherent, but then there would be a million "omg drop rate to low" threads
but making inscribable ones a lot rarer would be a step in the right direction
i agree with the quality of drops generally sucking, just dont see that as a good enough reason to change A LOT of stuff around, drops in eotn sucked since day one and those were un-touched

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

The change is already made.
Inscriptions are already in the game, and all skins can be obtained inscripted.

What's the difference?
Were do you get the stuff.

I would like to get something like a nice Jitte while vanquishing Shing Jea.
But that would never happen. The Jitte I got so far were... well... typical Factions/Prophecies drops.

I've seen messages about jittes inscribed and such, but the skin is no rare enough for the prices they ask.

A long sword should be 'cheap' 1..10k, a vertebraker sword should be by far much expensive.

But both should have at least a 50% of 'max'(req 7..13 max base) drops, independently of they own drop rates.

Item with a drop rate of 0.1? 50% of usable drops.
Item with a drop rate of 0.001? 50% of usable drops.

The 'base of a sword' is the damage, the base of a staff is the damage, the energy and the recharge.

They always have those properties. It's not like adding inscriptions would make all staves drop with req 7 20%HSR, 10 energy.
That just let you change a +15damage(while in a stance) for a +5 energy (HP^50) or +5 energy (enchanted)
The base stats of a weapon are aeays good, and everyone wants them, and the higher, the better, that's why they are the base stats.

That's the problem with the old system, modifiers are variable properties, they are not fixed like the rest of base stats, and that's because they added inscriptions, so people could change them.

If you currently want something like a coupld of daggers with +15%(-10 armor while attacking) you'll probably find them only with inscriptions.

HawkofStorms · Jan 21, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Have you actually looked at that shield?

Have you ever looked at a GvG in observer mode? Monks almost ALWAYS carry shields with +10 v piercing or slashing damage. If you don't meet the requirement for a shield, you still get +8 armor. On top of the +10 mods, you have a caster with +18 armor. That is why caster shields have become very common in high end PvP (especially now that inscriptions make duplicating those mods easier). That shield with a 20% recharage instead of the standard +30 health is INCREDIABLLY valuable since you can't get those mods with inscribable weapons (like, that is one of the nicest items I've ever seen). Even if it didn't have such a nice skin and a low requirement it would still fetch a pretty penny.

But I mean, what do I know? I clearly don't recognize a 400k+ shield when I see one and should stick to using it on my level 10 in shing jea.

Longasc · Jan 21, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia-Louis Dreyfus

you just named my reason, if your lazy farm somewhere else, these 2 games have REAL rare drops, not only do you have to get one to drop, but it has to come with a good inherent mod, which makes finding one all the more fun

Which is complete and utter bullshit.

You can get all items with much higher probability from the Zaishen Chest with an inscription slot than farming them in Cantha or Tyria.

Most Tyria and many skins can be gotten from GW:EN drops.

I could of course say, hey my gold r9 15^50 Gothic Sword from Cantha is UBER RARE... if I would not have customized it, I would sell it to guys who really need it probably for a lot of money.

Any other person can get a gold r9 insc slot Legendary Sword with the same skin but the option to mod the inscription to your liking for a fraction of the price.

So because some guys really need to have something special drops must continue to suck? I hope ANet finally gets over their laziness and adds inscriptions to these campaigns. It would be to the benefit of everyone but some screwed up minds.

@MirkoTeran
No sarcasm, +10 vs piercing and +1 20% divine favor is something I would not even use on a monk when I can get +10 vs whatever I want and 30 HP. And nobody else would either.

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Beware that I'm not against rarity.
I'm against

Let's see the armors.
With the old system, you had to buy more than one set if you wanted various combinations, and you could not change that. In Prophecies, they were even completely linked to the skin.
Now you can get an armor ONCE, and change its properties when you change your usual build for something else.

You get an item, and you don't need another one. You can change it.

Same goes for weapons.
Let's say you only like the Dragon Scythes dagger skin, and you use only one.

If you want to change it from +15^50%HP to +15%(Enchanted) you can only if they are inscribed.

But the skin itself it not really much rare. And they even drop inscribed from Core chests.

It's just like the armor.

Getting a max damage req 7..9 should not be necesarily easier.
But if it comes with a modifier you don't like, you should be able to change it.

It's not like turning Tactics shields into strenght ones.
It's just allow to change variable properties of the items, just like the rest of upgrades do.

Would you completely remove upgrades, so all properties are fixed to the item and never changeable?
That would be a complete nonsense in Guild Wars!

The main point is that they are Core.
They drop from rewards chests, all nightfall and GW:EN drops and they are installed in PvP.

It may need some love so more combinations may be allowed, but the system is better, and you know it. And all those that sell the fixed chaos axes and keep the inscribed for themselves know it.

Day Trooper · Jan 21, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

It's simple guys - ANet won't add inscribable weapons to prophecies and factions as this is another way to get peeps to buy Nightfall and EotN (a sort of 'power creep' if you will - Ursan Blessing anyone?). In a nutshell:

"If you really want inscribable drops - buy our expansions that offer inscribable drops!"

Basic business model logic

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

If that it's true? Why do inscribable items drop from the end chest of the Factions elite missions: The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, or items from the Hall of Heroes chest, the Fissure of Woe end chest and the Underworld end chest?

Why did they added insignia worldwide?
With the old system, if you wanted to get insignia armor, you had to get nightfall.

Same goes for Material storage. If was available for some time only to Factions.
Now Xunlai agents are all over the world offering the sevices. And our characters have even learned to open the chests! (Yay!)

Just the Prophecies skills and plot are reason enough to buy the campaign.
So that's out of the equation.

I bet the main reason not to make the change it's each area having a drop table, and the work it would require to make them all again.

But it would be great... each skin having one unique name, no weapons with different names and the same skin, crafters with inscribed items in all the world, items dropping inscribed everywhere, weapon upgrade traders that PvP-only accounts could use to buy upgrades to items dropped inchests... a collector for Titan claws that gives Insribed titan weapons...

Such things would be great...

But I would be happy just with the Inscriptions worldwide.

R.Shayne · Jan 21, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Have you ever looked at a GvG in observer mode? Monks almost ALWAYS carry shields with +10 v piercing or slashing damage. If you don't meet the requirement for a shield, you still get +8 armor. On top of the +10 mods, you have a caster with +18 armor. That is why caster shields have become very common in high end PvP (especially now that inscriptions make duplicating those mods easier). That shield with a 20% recharage instead of the standard +30 health is INCREDIABLLY valuable since you can't get those mods with inscribable weapons (like, that is one of the nicest items I've ever seen). Even if it didn't have such a nice skin and a low requirement it would still fetch a pretty penny.

But I mean, what do I know? I clearly don't recognize a 400k+ shield when I see one and should stick to using it on my level 10 in shing jea.

Don't play pvp or watch other people play (sounds terrible boring), would rather have a HCT HRT staff on a monk since I want them to heal or a +5 Energy +1 Smitting if they are smiting for me. Different play styles and I wouldn't give you 136 gold for the shield.

I farm vermin all the time and get many shield, staff, sceptors, with mods like these. Last run got a Req 9 divine staff with HCT of curse spells. I guess I should try to sale them on the PvP island or trade for Z-keys. Thanks for the info just found a way to get 133 z-keys!!!

HawkofStorms · Jan 21, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Beware that I'm not against rarity.
I'm against

Let's see the armors.
With the old system, you had to buy more than one set if you wanted various combinations, and you could not change that. In Prophecies, they were even completely linked to the skin.
Now you can get an armor ONCE, and change its properties when you change your usual build for something else.

You get an item, and you don't need another one. You can change it.

You see, but almost nobody actually does that. Some runes and insignas are so expensive (relative to the cost of the armor/weapon) that most poeple just have 2 armor sets with different stats anyway because they'd lose money on the longer term switching back and forth between stats. If you have 1k armor with a 200g insignia on it, are you going to override that insignia with another 200g one whenever your build requires it? If you do it 5 times or more you are wasting money (but saving 4 invintory slots). You might as well just buy another armor set, which is what most people do.

Edit: @ Shayne, you don't need a +5 on a staff. Energy doesn't matter ever because you have weapon sets. If you need the +5 energy, you can just switch to a different weapon set if you ever get low enough on energy that you need that +5 energy to cast. Furthermore, a offhand + caster weapon has more energy then a staff anyway, so there is almost no reason to use a staff other then as convient hero weapons in most of the game.

Look, you can have your opinion all you want. That doesn't make it right, especially if you are going to try to talk about pricing items.

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

No, no. Some combinations being possible or not it's not the deal, not the rarity.

It's the customization what's important.

More inscriptions and upgrades could be added, specially focus and shield upgrades. They have just a tiny few of them.
Rats could be reworked, if people find a way to over-farm a skin or things like those.

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 21, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

It's simple guys - ANet won't add inscribable weapons to prophecies and factions as this is another way to get peeps to buy Nightfall and EotN (a sort of 'power creep' if you will - Ursan Blessing anyone?). In a nutshell:

"If you really want inscribable drops - buy our expansions that offer inscribable drops!"

Basic business model logic

That's sort of a ridiculous assumption. Last April they made the insiginia system the standard in all 3 campaigns. There was really no need to do so because you could get the same mods on Tyrian and Canthan armor, albeit you had to have a certain set of armor to get the mod you wanted. So why bother? Because people wanted flexibility in what armor they bought. The same logic can be applied to inscriptions.

MithranArkanere · Jan 22, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

[...]Because people wanted flexibility in what armor they bought. The same logic can be applied to inscriptions.

Yeas, that's what I was trying to say the whole thread.
The system is way better, some 'artificial' rarity is not reason enough to stay in the old system.
'Natural' rarity, that is, rarity of the skin, is much better and should be enforced, and more inscription/upgrade combinations should be added to the lists, and upgrade traders for weapon and off-hand items should be added, but the system is better even now.

You can't see me · Jan 22, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

The argument on the old school shields in PvP is utter bull crap.

The way PvP was designed was that everyone was judged purely on their builds. Their armor was the same, they all had acess to the same weapons, and the amount of wealth they had was never intended to effect their performance, was wealth cannot buy better items, only more prestigous items. These shields are only available to those who have the wealth to use them, hence destroying the idea.

Inscriptions in Prophecies or not, I look down on those who use those shields in PvP. Their existance and use in PvP is not an argument enough to destroy the idea, as the argument itself goes against what PvP stands for anyway.

manitoba1073 · Jan 23, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Yeas, that's what I was trying to say the whole thread.
The system is way better, some 'artificial' rarity is not reason enough to stay in the old system.
'Natural' rarity, that is, rarity of the skin, is much better and should be enforced, and more inscription/upgrade combinations should be added to the lists, and upgrade traders for weapon and off-hand items should be added, but the system is better even now.

I now see where you are comming from somewhat and may i suggest this for you as he may help you with your E-peen Envy syndrome

Come on seriously they are not that useful as you try to make them out. So what you are saying is you want what you want to drop where you are at and not have to actually look for where they really drop. BTW if you want inscribable Jitte's they drop in GWEN. Hell even wikki would help you find them. But hell lets hear how you are claiming they are useful. I know most people would rather have all weapons with just 1 modifier is (15^50) and staffs and wands with just 20/20 universal cast/recharge. Do you even realize the cost in constant changing your modifers all the time. And trying to compare armor inscriptions to weapon inscriptions is a whole different ball game just like apples and oranges even though both grow from trees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The argument on the old school shields in PvP is utter bull crap.

The way PvP was designed was that everyone was judged purely on their builds. Their armor was the same, they all had acess to the same weapons, and the amount of wealth they had was never intended to effect their performance, was wealth cannot buy better items, only more prestigous items. These shields are only available to those who have the wealth to use them, hence destroying the idea.

Inscriptions in Prophecies or not, I look down on those who use those shields in PvP. Their existance and use in PvP is not an argument enough to destroy the idea, as the argument itself goes against what PvP stands for anyway.

Considering you had to PvE long ago in order to even play PvP throws your arguement out the door. wasnt untill Anerf decided to allow the creation of PvP chars did they seperate the differences in what either could use.

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

There are only THREE things I envy:
- Miniature of Bone Dragon.
- Miniature of Kuunavang.
- Miniature of Gwen.
That and only that.

I don't have a purple, blue or green items since I can't remember when. I only have gold req9 perfect inscribed items, and I sell/trade/give away everything else.
And I must say that sometimes getting upgrades for them it's a bit annoying, due to the lack of an upgrade trader and supply from trading players.

I only care about the system, unification, standardization and retroactivity for old campaigns, ad this idea adds so.

If they added a weapon upgrade trader, cost of changing upgrades would be just nothing. And thanks to the perfect salvage kits, even less.

So this suggestions has a great synergy with those 'add traders for all upgrades' suggestions.

And, again, stop living in the past.
That argument of You can't see me is valid NOW. Your was valid before that, when there were no battle isles and no inscriptions.
GW has changes a lot, always for the better. Skill gems, attribute change points, the evade mechanic, insignia, runes limited to professions, inscriptions, the Skills and attributes panel, templates, PvP item creation panel, PvP-only accounts...
It's all for the same purpose. A better game.
And so far it has worked. You may not think so, but.
Isn't it better when you can't have 9 skills at the same time?
Isn't it better when you can change your build in a blink?
Isn't it better when you can modify your armors anytime you want, the way you want?
Isn't it better when you can change your weapons if you want to?
Isn't it better when you can make new PvP equipment without having to delete and create another character?

Going back only means getting closer to those games whose mistakes Guild Wars has been always getting away from.
Now you want to go back to them? I didn't choose GW because it had no monthly fees, I choosd it because I tried in in an open weeknd and I LOVED the system.
And anytime I hope they make the system better, they did.

Yeah... so it's true, humans are the only animal that stumbles twice in the same stone. Geez.

Just before the release of Nightfall, our guild left and alliance because it was filled with griefing players that only cared about their titles and farming, and attacked anyone talking about their titles or things they got farming. Balls of pure envy, nonsense and counter-productivity, they were. They saw other ally members just as henchmen that had to put the builds they as for to hep them get stuff. Really bad players. That's why our leader left that alliance. The worst part is that only the leaders and officers of the guilds were like that. Many mebers were good players. Some of them even left those guilds to join others, some even our guild. And they are happier now, by the way.

Do you know what was the last discussion I had with some of the officers of the griefing alliance? I was saying that it would be great if they replaced the variable modifier in items with another upgrade. I said that it would fit much more GW, and make the game less grindy and more enjoyable. They all started babbling about that destroying the market and other nonsense.

Now imagine my wide smile when I say inscriptions in Nightfall. I was even whispered by one of those officers and being accused of bein an 'evil Anet employee' or something like that. I ignored the guy and kept laughing for a long time.

That's a good tale about how things do change and those that are 'evil' do not stand so, so they try to stop any kind of progress for their own selfish profit. But good things can't be stopped forever. Freedom, equality, rights... those things where not even conceivable a long time ago in many countries. Now are a reality. Which side do you want to be in? In the side of those that want what is god for everyone, or in the side of those that want what is good for them? Hm...?

By the way, I'm still waiting for a single non-selfish reason not to add inscriptions worldwide, so all we can have more points of view about the idea to work with.

manitoba1073 · Jan 23, 2008, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There are only THREE things I envy:
- Miniature of Bone Dragon.
- Miniature of Kuunavang.
- Miniature of Gwen.
That and only that.

I don't have a purple, blue or green items since I can't remember when. I only have gold req9 perfect inscribed items, and I sell/trade/give away everything else.
And I must say that sometimes getting upgrades for them it's a bit annoying, due to the lack of an upgrade trader and supply from trading players.

I only care about the system, unification, standardization and retroactivity for old campaigns, ad this idea adds so.

If they added a weapon upgrade trader, cost of changing upgrades would be just nothing. And thanks to the perfect salvage kits, even less.

So this suggestions has a great synergy with those 'add traders for all upgrades' suggestions.

Which brings us right back to everyone having 15^50 weapons 20/20 universal mods right. And really nothing like what you've been trying to pull off on versatility. I bolded your part so you dont think I made that up.